RetroN 5 Gaming Console

PSN-Name: krazzo
#1
Ich habe davon gar nichts mitbekommen, finde das Teil aber mehr als nur interessant. Vor allem weil ich damals nur mit einem Sega Master System und Mega Drive aufgewachsen bin. Hin und wieder konnte ich auch bei Freunden NES/SNES spielen, aber die meiste Zeit gab's Konsolenkrieg auf dem Grundschulpausenhof. Der Preis ist zwar etwas happig, aber zumindest könnte man seine alten Geräte vernünftig im Vitrinenschrank verstauen und es spart jede Menge Platz. Unterm Fernseher und an der Steckdosenleiste!

Retro-Klassiker von 5 Konsolen spielen: Hyperkin stellt RetroN 5 Gaming Console vor
06.05.15 - Hyperkin hat seine Retro-Konsole "RetroN 5 Gaming Console" vorgestellt, die jetzt lieferbar ist. Auf dem System laufen Original-Module von NES, SNES, Famicom, Super Famicom, Game Boy, Game Boy Advanced, Game Boy Color, Sega Mega Drive und Sega Genesis (Sega Master System mit Adapter).

Die Konsole wird mit einem kabellosen Controller ausgeliefert, wobei es auch Steckplätze für die Original-Controller gibt. Alle Spiele sind individuell anpassbar (verschiedene Filter, Shader Effekte, Scanlines), und es kann jederzeit gespeichert werden. Lauffähig sind sowohl PAL- als auch NTSC-Original-Module.

Das Gerät kann an jeden Fernseher mit dem beiliegenden HDMI-Kabel angeschlossen werden und kostet z.B. bei Amazon EUR 198.
CLICK PICTURE (Hyperkin RetroN 5 Retro Video Gaming System)

Wer holt sich das Teil? :)
 

crysmopompas

I am a bot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
Spielt gerade: GT7 | 60fps FTW
#3
Als Modulleser und Kontrolleradapter vielleicht für manche ganz nützlich.

Muss mal schauen welche Hardware und Software dort drin streckt.
Eines von derartigen Geräten machte sich durch Lizenzverletzungen nicht gerade beliebt.


Will man die besten Emulatoren haben führt nix an x86+Windows vorbei, imo.
Plug&Play gibt's da natürlich nicht.

---------- Beitrag um 13:00 Uhr hinzugefügt ---------- Vorheriger Beitrag um 12:51 Uhr ----------

Treffer, war das was ich meinte:

RetroArch, Libretro core license violations by Hyperkin’s Retron5
We have an open-source project called RetroArch. It has a development interface called libretro that allows for the easy creation of emulators and games that can plug straight into this program called RetroArch. This development interface is open to others so that they can run these pluggable emulator and game cores also in their own programs or devices. You can find this project on Github. (github.com/libretro). We also have a website – http://www.libretro.com. We started this project in late 2010 and we have been steadily increasing in popularity. We are on over 15 different hardware platforms right now that you can run RetroArch on, including Android (which this Retron5 device is based on).

These open-source programs are covered under certain licenses. Several of the emulators are covered under non-commercial licenses, which means they cannot be sold or profited from.

We have discovered that Retron5 is in violation of the licenses of several projects:


Genesis Plus GX

1. It uses the open-source emulator ‘Genesis Plus GX’ by author Eke-Eke for its Sega Genesis/Mega Drive module (https://github.com/ekeeke/Genesis-Plus-GX). This core has been licensed under a non-commercial license. It can therefore not be sold as, or part of, a commercial product.

Proof is in the accompanied screenshots at the bottom of this post. None of the authors were contacted about their code’s use in the Retron5 hardware.


SNES9x Next

2. It uses the open-source emulator ‘SNES9x Next’, which is itself a derivative of SNES9x (https://github.com/libretro/snes9x-next). I (Squarepusher) personally made this version of SNES9x. It has a few differences compared to normal SNES9x. It has SuperFX overclocking code and it has certain game speed hacks that make games run faster on slower hardware. This comes at the expense of some graphics inaccuracies though.

We could tell it was the SNES9x Next core because the exact same strings for variables to do with the speed hacks and the SuperFX overclock code popped up in their SNES core.

SNES9x is licensed under a non-commercial license. Like Genesis Plus GX, it can therefore not be a part of a commercial product.

What also bears pointing out is that SNES9x Next has never been released in any other version than the libretro version. Libretro is the development interface of RetroArch if you remember. We will return to this later on.

Proof is in the accompanied screenshots (see below). None of the authors were contacted.


FCEUmm

3. It uses the open-source emulator ‘FCEUmm’ for its NES module, which is itself a derivative of FCE Ultra. FCEUmm is licensed under the GPLv2. Technically they would have been allowed to sell this IF they had made sure their frontend was compatible with GPLv2. Unfortunately, this turns out not to be the case as we’ll find later on – since they are using GPLv3 code inside their frontend as well which is technically incompatible with this license.

Proof of it being FCEUmm is in the accompanied screenshots (see below).


VBA Next

4. It uses the open-source emulator ‘VBA Next’ for its GBA module. VBA Next is a derivative of another emulator called VBA-M. I (Squarepusher) made this version specifically and I could recognize it was this version because of the fact that I have built-in a game database into this emulator. The game ID strings that are used to identify the ROMs appeared in Retron’s GBA module as well. As for the rest of the code, it is undoubtedly VBA. The screenshots showing the code flow of operation will illustrate this clearest.

VBA Next is licensed under the GPLv2. None of the authors were contacted. Proof is in the accompanied screenshots (see below).


5. We found obvious bits of RetroArch’s sourcecode inside their frontend. Now the reason we could identify these snippets is because it is inlined Assembly code that is hard to obfuscate. The relevant parts are the ARM NEON-optimized sinc resampler code and the audio integer to float conversion routines. If you want photographic evidence, I refer you to the second link I posted below.

All of the other C code of RetroArch seems to have been obfuscated so it will take us some more time to identify these parts. What is evidently clear though is that they are already in violation of the GPL license that we covered this RetroArch code under. GPL version 3 specifically forbids TIVO-ization. Let me explain later what TIVO-ization is. It basically means that you use opensource software to make a locked-down hardware device that doesn’t allow you the freedoms that the GPL generally provides to users and developers alike.

Since they have used our libretro cores evidently and since the only way to actually use these cores is through a libretro frontend implementation, and since actual RetroArch code has already been identified in their frontend, this raises serious questions as to how much of their frontend constitutes ‘original work’ and how much of it is just RetroArch. Either way, they are in the wrong for several reasons here:

– They should have also made these publicly available for every user to download since that is part of the rules and stipulations of using GPL code.
– They made a locked-down crippled hardware device based on open-source software. You void your warranty if you attempt to modify the copyleft-licensed software on this product and furthermore it doesn’t even allow you to do this. It is not possible to run the original, non-crippled RetroArch frontend on this device, only the crippled one provided by HyperKin. It also uses encryption as a means to obfuscate and hide the originating source of this software. This is TIVO-ization and the GPL version 3 was specifically made to prevent this.



What is TIVO-ization?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization

Tivoization /ˈtiːvoʊɨˌzeɪʃən/ is the creation of a system that incorporates software under the terms of a copyleft software license (like the GPL), but uses hardware restrictions to prevent users from running modified versions of the software on that hardware. Richard Stallman coined the term in reference to TiVo’s use of GNU GPL licensed software on the TiVo brand digital video recorders (DVR), which actively blocks users from running modified software on its hardware by design.[1][2] Stallman believes this practice denies users some of the freedom that the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) was designed to protect.[3]

The GPL version 3 was specifically made because GPL version 2 did not provide enough safeguards against abuse like in the case of the TIVo digital video recorders. They would take from open source, not credit anybody and not give anything back either – and even create a closed platform around it where they would set themselves up as owners of the software (and in effect the hardware).

GPLv3 forbids you from building a gated community around open-source software like this and giving nothing back in return. The fact that they have used RetroArch’s GPL version 3-licensed audio resampler code in a product that is running a locked-down, encryption-crippled version of Android is already bad enough. That they don’t even provide to users the ability to run content on this device without any restrictions is another serious concern.

Anyway, as it stands right now in its current state the product is using parts of our software illegally. There were also some other things found that were legally questionable like a Microsoft-licensed Verdana font which is covered by a End-User License Agreement, so there are multiple license violations here at play.

More evidence of RetroArch appropriation (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).


Multiple license violations, multiple conflicting licenses, bad faith

The problems with this are many-fold, but for us it comes down to mixing non-commercial cores on this device with more permissively licensed cores, the infringement of the emulator authors’ rights, the lack of credit paid where credit is due, the lack of freedom in the hardware device (which restricts the user in what he/she can do and makes him/her reliant on Hyperkin to serve as the gateway keeper since he/she can’t uncripple this version of Android on their device without voiding their warranty and they can’t run the uncrippled RetroArch frontend on it either), and the multiple conflicting licenses. Also, the fact that changes / patches to the sourcecode have not been provided to customers of this device. These should have been made available on a public place free of charge.

Open-source is not a matter of doing with it as you please. The license is there for a reason and it needs to be followed, and it dictates how you should go about your business when deciding to make a commercial product out of such software. GPL is known as a ‘viral license’ which means that the community behind this uses the viral nature of the GPL as an effective strategy to ensure more and more software gets licensed under the GPL, since every bit of GPL code that gets incorporated into another project needs to be made GPL or GPL-compatible as well otherwise it’s a violation of the license. As it stands right now, the software for the Retron5 is very likely illegal to distribute.


---------- Beitrag um 13:28 Uhr hinzugefügt ---------- Vorheriger Beitrag um 13:00 Uhr ----------

So they just released this.

http://retron5.in/node/9

Several problems with that:

  • Just releasing sourcecode to SNES9x (Next) derivatives and Genesis Plus GX doesn't fix the fact that it's a violation of their respective proprietary noncommercial licenses. Noncommercial obviously maens noncommercial.
SNES9x and Genesis Plus GX devs should DEMAND both of these emulators be removed from their device. Nothing less.

If SNES9x and Genesis Plus GX devs let them get away with this, this will speak ill of their 'license' BTW and they might as well public-domainize the entire thing for all the difference it would make. So don't let them get away with this half-hearted measure. Demand that they pull the entire emulator from the package. Don't let these people get away with this bullshit.

  • They are still not explaining or addressing the RetroArch audio resampler code and audio integer to float conversion code that was found in their frontend library, 'libretron.so'. RetroArch is licensed as GPLv3, and then TIVOization kicks into play, giving them another problem legally. Also, pretty sure that any GPLv3 code being incorporated means that the entire frontend code must then be covered by that license. Just giving us an even higher-level API wrapper than libretro is not going to fly - we want to see the entire codebase where that Sinc resampler code was being incorporated into, and we want to know just how much of RetroArch's other code is still in there.
And even then this still does count as a GPL violation.

I stress to people - don't let them get away with this. They don't even have the public decency to at least link this on their frontpage - they're trying to brush this off in the most insincere of ways after they made an entire point about it in press interviews that they were writing everything from scratch and that public open-source emulators out there were not conducive to their aims.

They used encryption to hide obvious wrongdoings and to obfuscate and conceal what they based their emulator modules on. They are still in violation of the GPL and they have still been acting in bad faith all along.

And yes, any help financially to take these guys on in case the FSF doesn't want to cover legal expenses would be very welcome. I don't know for sure whether the FSF will want to take this on but all the same I sincerely hope that all of the people affected in this thing are not going to let themselves get cowed and cajoled by this half-hearted measure. What's been done cannot be undone and they still haven't addressed the root of the problem.

If people are not going to do anything about this, then you might as well not bother with licensing altogether. Now is the time for action, and failure to do so means that you might as well let companies piss all over you with actions violating the license and then hiding behind something like 'you cannot legally reverse-engineer our device since it is encrypted'.
http://www.reddit.com/r/gamecollecting/comments/2gyz79/retron_5_steals_opensource_emulator_code/
~lol~
 
Zuletzt editiert:
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
PSN-Name: Dojii
#6
Da das Ding ja immernoch ganz regulär in DE angeboten wird (bspw. bei amazon) überlege ich auch, ob ich mir eins zulege.
Hab nur noch nen alternden SNES zuhause aber haufenweise Spiele zum SNES, GB(A) und Megadrive...

Tests und Reviews sind ja schon recht gut ausgefallen. Und Gregor von den rocketbeans schwärmt auch davon....
 
PSN-Name: krazzo
#7
Ich habe den Gedanken jedesmal wenn ich über einen Flohmarkt schlender. Erst letztens wieder das "Problem" gehabt. Zu Hause steht noch mein erster Sega Mega Drive und die Kiste läuft. Nur ist es eben diese eine Konsole und für's Mega Drive gibt es auf Flohmärkten generell eher weniger Software.
 
PSN-Name: krazzo
#8
Ich hoffe ich werde es mir irgendwie in diesem Jahr noch leisten können. Juckt mir einfach zu sehr in den Finger.
Retro-Klassiker von 5 Konsolen spielen: RetroN 5 Gaming Console wieder lieferbar

09.07.15 - Hyperkin gibt bekannt, dass seine Retro-Konsole "RetroN 5 Gaming Console" ab sofort wieder lieferbar ist. Auf dem System laufen Original-Module von NES, SNES, Famicom, Super Famicom, Game Boy, Game Boy Advanced, Game Boy Color, Sega Mega Drive und Sega Genesis (Sega Master System mit Adapter).

Die Konsole wird mit einem kabellosen Controller ausgeliefert, wobei es auch Steckplätze für die Original-Controller gibt. Alle Spiele sind individuell anpassbar (verschiedene Filter, Shader Effekte, Scanlines), und es kann jederzeit gespeichert werden. Lauffähig sind sowohl PAL- als auch NTSC-Original-Module.

Das Gerät kann an jeden Fernseher mit dem beiliegenden HDMI-Kabel angeschlossen werden und kostet z.B. bei Amazon EUR 193.
CLICK PICTURE (Hyperkin RetroN 5 Retro Video Gaming System)
 

crysmopompas

I am a bot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
Spielt gerade: GT7 | 60fps FTW
#11
Mal von den Lizenzverstößen abgesehen finde ich das Gerät eine etwas inkonsistente Kombination:
Man spielt zwar mit einem Originalmodul und evtl. original Controller, läßt das ganze dann aber über Emulation laufen, die wegen schwächlicher ARM-Hardware auch nicht immer die bestmögliche ist.
 
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
PSN-Name: Dojii
#13
Jap, Gregor von den Bohnen ist ziemlich begeistert davon.

Und die für den Stream abgegriffene Grafik der alten Games sieht auch echt scharf und ansehnlich aus.
 

crysmopompas

I am a bot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
Spielt gerade: GT7 | 60fps FTW
#14
Well, seeing as this is the hardware section, I decided to tear apart the retron5 today and take a peek

the biggest visible components on the top sides of the boards(I didn't take it all the way apart) are:

On the main board:
-Rockchip RK3066
-2x Nanya ram
-29F16G

On the cart board:
-Xilinx Spartan XC3S50A
-4x ALVC164245 which look to be voltage related

then there are two skinny boards for the controller ports

It looks like the flex cables connecting the boards may have been glued in? strange

there's also a couple of through hole resistors connected to a testpoint on one end and a wire on the other that stick out like a sore thumb on what looks to be a late 'revision' to the board
Ist ein Dual-Core ARM A9(v7), bis zu 1,6GHz, mit Mali400 GPU.
btw: adb with root here

still needs su and superuser.apk but I think /system should be mounted rw

anybody wanna test this out and see if I uploaded the right file?


bonus: sorta looks like maybe there is/was pc engine support?
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11258&start=15
 
Zuletzt editiert:
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
PSN-Name: maxmontezuma
Spielt gerade: Hogwarts Legacy
#15
Also ich schaue den Retro Klub ja auch immer regelmäßig und bin auch eigentlich von Gregors Wissen und Geschmack beeindruckt, aber warum er das Retron 5 Ding so abfeiert, kann ich ehrlich gesagt nicht ganz verstehen. Denn auch wenn ihr schreibt, dass es scheinbar einwandfrei läuft, so sieht man einfach oft und in nahezu jedem Spiel Grafikfehler und/oder Probleme mit dem Sound. Bestes Beispiel für Grafikfehler war da wohl Stunt Race FX, wo in der Kurs-Auswahl das Bild mit irgendeinem Zeichen-Wirrwarr im Hintergrund am flackern war, als gäbe es kein morgen :p Dafür, dass das Ding also relativ bescheiden emuliert und man obendrein zwingend Original-Module braucht, da könnt ihr auch einfach alle auf wesentlich bessere Emulation auf dem PC zugreifen und wenn ihr unbedingt möchtet euch die Module kaufen und in den Schrank stellen :p Ich bleibe da dann doch lieber bei meinen Original-Konsolen die bei eBay ja oftmals auch nicht mehr so viel kosten. Für die 200 Euro die die für das Retron 5 haben wollen, bekommt man locker jede der supporteten Plattformen gebraucht auf eBay zusammen :p Da hat man zwar den Nachteil mit dem Region Lock, aber nun ja. Das Ding klang ja ganz attraktiv und anfangs wollte ich mir das auch mal anschaffen, nachdem Gregor davon so zu schwärmen anfing. Aber inzwischen hab ich da wieder großen Abstand genommen.
 
PSN-Name: krazzo
#16
Es hat halt einfach einen großen Vorteil - es spart Platz. Ich habe nämlich keine Möglichkeit diverse Konsolen in mein Wohnzimmer zu stellen, bzw. zig Kabel irgendwo entlang zu führen. Von den Steckdosen mal abgesehen. Und klar, man muss ja nicht immer alles angeschlossen haben und pi pa po. Aber wer kannt das nicht - dieses bequem sein?!
 
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
PSN-Name: Dojii
#19
Und dann spielt man aber auch natürlich nur die runtergeladenen Titel, von denen man auch das Originalmodul besitzt oder?

Außerdem gehört das ins Modul pusten einfach dazu! :D
 

crysmopompas

I am a bot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems, systems
Spielt gerade: GT7 | 60fps FTW
#20
Auch dieses Gerät mit Segen von SNK hat so ähnliche Probleme :ugly::
SNK did much worse things with the Neo Geo X

http://neosource.1emulation.com/foru...p?topic=2352.0

Haze:

yes, it's basically just a copy of the innards of a cheap chinese handheld complete with a copy of the various emulators that were ported to the platform and a frontend for running just the neogeo games via fba bolted on.

it's underpowered, and basically illegal, the only licensed thing is probably the NG roms themselves, people have reported there are even copies of the PS1 bios on there(!)

whatever version of FBA they're using is also apparently rather bastardized and suffers from numerous emulation glitches either because it's been built on an early version, or with a buggy compiler, or because somebody (who clearly doesn't understand emulation because they would have just done their own emulator) has tried to optimize it for the inadequate hardware.

Strangely enough about the only thing apparently not on there is MAME, but I guess FBA is the new MAME for these low-powered devices, so get used to it guys....

you get none of the benefits of running on original hardware and all the drawbacks of an emulator hacked to run on poor specs along with the usual lack of quality control / poor decision making you get with cheap chinese knock-off products (reports that it scales 224 -> 240 etc.)

much like Apple stuff you're paying for the name / brand here, certainly not the actual product.

I'm sure somebody could load it with a better NeoGeo emulator than the one they ship, but it's not really even that much of an interesting hobby machine due to the poor specs.
........................................................................... .........................................................
yeah, it's just a port of all the dingoo stuff, as people have said there are a bunch of other emulators just sitting on it. people are using the same tools to convert alt rom images for it to run because it uses the same formats that version used.

amazing that this can be passed off as an official product really, but at the same time entirely unsurprising.
via http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=173936976&postcount=102




Mögliche Alternative zum Retron


Mit diesem KS-Projekt

http://retropi.de/

kann man einen Raspberry Pi zur Retrostation mit Cartridge-Leser und Controlleradapter umbauen.


Imo viel nützlicher und besser als das verschlossene Retron, wobei es nicht so viele verschiedene Cartridges lesen kann.
 
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